Wednesday, 27 January 2010
Ratings Confusion
I've got my knickers in a twist this week about the various rating systems that I have to work to. I'm pretty much OK with the one I devised for this blog - it's rather vague (deliberately so) and as a result I'm comfortable using it.
The other two rating systems I use are the two different 5 star systems used at Wave's blog and at Good Reads. It's these two systems which I'm getting all in a muddle about. It all stemmed from a discussion I had with another reviewer on Twitter over a book I'd reviewed at Wave's and given 4 stars to and yet I'd given it 3 stars at GRs. She wanted to know why there was a discrepancy in the grades - a good point to make. I tried to explain my reasoning but it's damned hard to make a decent point when you're only working with 140 characters at a time and frankly, I did a piss poor job of it. Anyway, I went away wondering whether I had perhaps been a bit generous with the review grade at Wave's because I certainly didn't think it merited 4 stars at GRs. This then got me to really consider the way that I assign grades at GRs.
Let's have a look at their system:
1 star = Didn't like it
2 stars = It was OK
3 stars = I liked it
4 stars = I really liked it
5 stars = It was amazing
When I compare this to the thinking (at least in my head) of how Wave's star grading system works. If I liked a book enough to have a good positive feel about it and would recommend it then it gets a grade in the 4s - moving up the scale depending on the quality of the book. If I liked a book but there were a number of things I didn't think worked about the book it gets in the 3s. In the case of the book in question, I felt it was written well enough to just sneak into a grade of 4 as I enjoyed reading it, would recommend it, but just felt it was perhaps a little unoriginal in its ideas. However, I didn't 'really like it' so it got a three at GRs.
Moving away from that particular book, I've found that there are lots of other books where I've perhaps given a lower star grade at GRs than I have elsewhere. The top 5 star grade of 'It was amazing' often puts me off giving 5 stars to a book, even if I've enjoyed the book a great deal, because it's rare that I think a book is 'amazing' - the adjective is just too effusive. Yet, I give out quite a number of 'Excellent' grades which, if you are comparing like for like, would be the equivalent of a 5 star grade - except of course, it isn't. I've given 'Excellent' grades out to books I've only given four stars to at GRs and at Wave's.
Do you see what I mean about getting myself in a knot about this? Even this post is almost incoherent because I can't seem to get my head around it. I think the only way to solve the problem is for me to state, on the record, that these two star systems are different - they have different criteria attached to them. As a result, I will often give different ratings at GRs to that which I give here on this blog or at Wave's and that my ratings at GRs will sometimes be a bit lower than the ones I give to reviews at Wave's - not all the time, sometimes they will tally, but there will be occasional discrepancies.
Another thing I find about GRs is that I sometimes change my mind about a grade. This has mostly to do with the fact that my GRs grade is often based on my feelings straight after finishing a book. It's not until I then go back and think carefully about a book for the purposes of reviewing that I will then change my mind. Sometimes I realise that the book has a number of holes in plot and characterisation which I didn't spot until later; sometimes skimming through the book gives me a better appreciation of what the author was trying to achieve. It's at those times when I will either lower or raise the mark at GRs depending on my change in feelings. I don't think there's anything wrong with doing that especially as GRs is basically just my thoughts on books and so should reflect any changes of heart that have occurred since reading.
What about you lot? Do you see a 5 star rating system and just assume it all means the same? I often look at a reviewer's own criteria when I'm visiting other blogs as I know that different reviewers have a different idea of what fits under each star. What about GRs? Do you find their star system a little too simplistic and not really that helpful? Am I just having a big old fuss about nothing (again) and really the important thing is what is said in the review and not the rating at all?
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It makes perfect sense to me that GR & Wave's 5-stars are different things. Especially as Wave's site allows for gradients between stars.
ReplyDeleteGR's rating system sort of needs 6 stars, I think, since it won't allow halves and quarters. I mean, it's a fairly big leap from 'I really liked it' to 'it was amazing.' (Not so big a leap with the other stars in their system, though, which is why I say they need a sixth star for 'amazing' and should have the fifth be more like 'I would read it more than once, I liked it that much' or whatever.)
Actually, if you really think about it, Wave's got a 5+ rating, which I think qualifies for the 'it was amazing' category, so... yeah.
Not sure that made any sense, but I hope it did. LOL
~Tis
Hi Tis
ReplyDeleteSome people add their own gradations in the comments section under the books at GRs. That seems to work. A sixth star is a good idea!
Well, you know I hate ratings so...
ReplyDeleteThe only times I use them is when I do reviews - which is not a heck of a lot recently - at Wave's and for books on GR (cos otherwise what's the point). Any discrepancies between the two, for me, are due to the fact that Wave's allows for 1/2 marks etc. This means I either go up or down at GR depending on what I thought.
Having said that, Wave's rating system is different to the one at GR. I must admit that I like the simpler system at GR, but I think that has more to with my attitude to ratings as opposed to anything else.
Wave's system does have the benefit of giving readers a sense of whether the reviewer thinks those who like the genre or the author will enjoy the books, which I think is helpful for those deciding to purchase it or not.
As to the way other people rate...
I make sure I check out what their rating system means before I take it into consideration. However, it is the review that largely determines my purchase, not the rating.
What a ramble. Hope that makes sense.
Oh, and a couple of others things:
- I change my GR ratings too sometimes after I've had the time to think about it
- I do tend to assume that a 5 star rating means the same everywhere
Ok. Enough already.
Hi Kris
ReplyDeleteI'm not too fond of ratings either but I also know that some readers like them - hence my deliberately vague one.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who changes their GRs rating :).
That's a good point about 5 stars being pretty universal, just like a 1 star review too, I suppose.
I know what you mean, Jen. Ratings are VERY hard to keep consistent from book to book, genre to genre, and even review site to review site. I've pulled all my reviews off of Amazon at least twice now because I've been frustrated with the review system.
ReplyDeleteI didn't even used to give a scale rating to books in my review until I started getting more accustomed to it at Wave's site. Now I've got some general terms similar to yours: mine are Highly Recommended, Recommended-yes, Recommended-not quite, and Recommended-no. You can see that these are good roomy categories that give me some leeway, ha, ha!
Lately, I've been trying to be generous with the stars on Amazon because I know that it doesn't take much to lose the buyer's attention over there. I figure if the buyers get lured enough to read the product page, the writers will have a chance.
Then if the readers really want the details on my opinion, they can look at the "strong points" and "weak points" that I list in my Amazon review.
As for Goodreads, I've just barely signed up over there, but I think that it lets you list books that you read, but you don't have to assign a star value. It's optional unlike Amazon where it's mandatory. So I haven't assigned any yet. I hear what you're saying, though. I'd look a little questionable at GoodReads if I assigned a lot of things as 5-star (amazing!).
I see what you mean Jen. I have the same feeling when rating at GR. I would like to give a 3,5* but it is not there. So sometimes I will give it a 3 and other times a 4. Bit depending on my mood.
ReplyDeleteI do have some 5-star books at GR but not too much I think.
A 5 star book at Wave's does not feel the same to me as a 5 star at GR. It is easy to click on 5 stars without having to tell why you think it merits so many.
My ratings on my blog and on GR's is the same. If I gave it a 4 on the blog it gets a 4 on GR's. My explanations of those ratings may not match up perfectly, but close enough. I kind of cheat though and in the review section I put my 1/4 and 1/2 ratings as well. If a book gets a 3.5 from me I'll mark 3 in the star section at GR's and then put 3.5 out of 5 stars in the review section. That's assuming anyone reads that but there ya go. :)
ReplyDeleteI'm sort of schizophrenic about ratings, whether they're my own (on goodreads) or other people's.
ReplyDeleteEven if I know the review site has identified the value of 5 - 1, I tend to think in terms of the school grades A - F.
But not always. Sometimes I am very conscious about those assigned meanings.
Either way, I use the rating only as an arrow pointing in the general direction, then place more importance on the review.
I want freaking half stars at GR! For me 4 is really liked it a lot (as opposed to AMAZING 5 stars) and 3 is enjoyable but nothing that I find myself thinking about as soon as I close the file. Sometimes I like it a bit more than that, but not REALLY enjoyed it. I hate being stuck as I feel it's better than most books I rate as 3 but not as good I rate as 4. Arrggh. Periodically when I can't decide I will mark it as 3 and then put a comment in the "review" part that says "3.5" just to make the point that I think it's worth more but not quite 4. Of course that doesn't change the overall grade of the statistics. On my site I don't even try to rate anything as is quite obvious by my mindless rambling.
ReplyDeleteAs a reader I don't really care much. I you give a book 3 or 4 or 5 it gives me a general feeling. When I go to GR I check the rating. If it's 3 and above I know its a decent read and if the blurb caught my attention it likely means I'll enjoy it even if it's not the greatest thing I've ever read. If I read a book that is rated between 4 and 5 stars then I expect to be pretty much blown away. If I read something that is 1 or 2, well, I likely won't read it. LOL So I go with a general feel because I know my 3 is not your 3 is not Val's 3, is not Chris' 3, etc. But it gives me more info to decide if I haven't bought it yet.
Sometimes it's also interesting if I find a book I loved that people I know have reasonably similar taste to me hated or vice versa it makes me stop and think what it was about that book that took me so far out of my norm. It's not always the same thing but it's interesting to my psyche to see why a book appealed to me that others found annoying.
I don't like GRs for its lack of .5 grades, which is one of the numerous reasons I prefer LibraryThing.
ReplyDeleteI did notice, when I made my list of the books I'd read for 2009, that I often turned out to have rated a particular author the same across numerous books. I found that reassuring. :)
I only recently started adding the star ratings to my reviews. 5 means I loved it, 4 I really liked it, 3 liked it, 2 it was ok and 1 didn't like it. It's pretty much the same as GRs although I do add .5 if I feel they're needed in which case I'll either bring it down or up on GRs depending on the book.
ReplyDeleteI have been know to change my GRs ratings sometimes but not often.
My GR rating system is similar to Lily's. I wish they'd take off the "it was amazing" description for 5 stars because that seems a bit over the top, and I don't think many books I read are "amazing". There are many books that I really loved reading, I would re-read, and would highly recommend, though, and those I give 5 stars to. Like many others, I do wish they had half stars on GR.
ReplyDeleteI also occasionally go back and change my GR ratings after I've thought about the book for a while. And I've often wondered if I shouldn't go back and re-read and maybe re-rate some of the early m/m books I read. There were some I rated very highly, and, looking back, I'm not sure if that's because they were truly excellent or if I just liked them so much because m/m was new to me (if that makes any sense).
Sorry it's taken me so long to reply to your comments guys, RL has been very busy today.
ReplyDeleteHi Val
I like those general terms of yours. They give a reader something to latch onto without all having to be specific with numbers. When I have to assign a numerical grade, I feel the weight of those quarter marks because I know that the authors who read their reviews get really hung up on whether a review gives, say 4.25 or 4.5 stars when really, what does it matter?
I have to admit when I look at a product at Amazon, I usually look at the star ratings and only go onto read the reviews if there's a wide range in the mark given.
Hi Ingrid
ReplyDeleteThat's a good point. I think there are some people at GRs who rate nearly all their books as 5 stars but never leave a review to say why it was so good. I find myself being a bit dubious about the star ratings those people give because surely not every book you read is 'amazing'?
Hi Tracy
I noticed that you gave half stars in the review section at GRs. It's a good idea as it then fits in more with what you do on your own blog.
Hi Wren
ReplyDeleteThere are a lot of review sites which use a alphabetical review and then use + or - to distinguish between the grades. I still found that to be a bit too restrictive.
I use the rating only as an arrow pointing in the general direction, then place more importance on the review.
That's a great way of putting it! However, there are some people who just look at the numerical grade and don't read on from that.
Hi Tam
ReplyDeleteI do the same as you when looking at a book GRs. If a book has lots of 3 & 4 stars, I pretty much know I shall probably like it. You are right that we all have different criteria in our heads for judging a book. I know, for example, that Kris tends to mark one star lower than me for many books - except for one I read recently when she marked it higher for once!
Hi Chris
ReplyDeleteI had to choose between GRs or Library Thing. I can't do both or hub will kill me for more time wasting exercises! I do wish that GRs would implement a half star though. Mind you that doesn't help when I'm torn between a 3.75 or a 4 grade :).
I have some authors who consistently get the same grades and some where I might like some of their books but not others. I don't mind that as many authors experiment with different styles and forms, and not everything is going to work for everyone all of the time.
Hi Lily
ReplyDeleteHaving 'I loved it' as a 5 star is so much better than 'it was amazing'. I don't know why GRs didn't go for that one themselves as it fits better with the previous 4 descriptors.
Was there any reason why you adopted a rating system?
Hi Richelle
ReplyDeleteI've had exactly the same thoughts as you regarding some of my first m/m books. I was so thrilled to discover a new genre that I loved when I first started reading m/m that I may well have rated a few things higher than I would now. Then again, it was my opinion at the time so I should probably stick with it - and maybe someone new to the genre themselves would get the same reaction I did as a m/m newbie.
Jen, I started using the star rating on GRs and then Rainbow Reviews. I figured since I was using them there I might as well add them in when I posted a review on my blog.
ReplyDeleteLily: I see what you mean. I suppose once you get used to using a system then you may as well use it across the board.
ReplyDeleteHi Jen
ReplyDeleteAs always, I'm late to the party.
When I started reviewing for other sites several years ago they all had a rating system so it was not a problem for me to adapt their systems when I set up a review site.
I never joined GR for the reason you all mentioned - I would find their system too restrictive. Same reason I rarely post on amazon - no flexibility. If a book is not rated a whole number on the site I don't bother posting a review on amazon.
A few reviewers don't rate books on their own blogs but give 5 stars to everything on amazon, which I think defeats the purpose of rating a book. To compound the problem, their reviews are usually vague so teh readers don't know if they liked the book (I guess they don't want to offend any authors). I usually disregard all of the reviews of these reviewers and move on to someone else's reviews that clealry identify the pluses and minuses of a book.
I hoped that by inserting points along the spectrum of the scale on my review system would make it easier for guest reviewers to rate a book. Maybe I'm so accustomed to the system that I don't find it difficult to rate a book. If I recommend a book it's automatically 4 stars - I may have a few issues with the book and those issues are identified in the review - but I try to be consistent.
Hi Wave
ReplyDeleteI think your point system within the stars works well. I've pretty much got used to it now. I think as long as you (and the reviewers who 'guest' on your site) are consistent, then there shouldn't be a problem with using a rating system like the one you have set up for your site.
Wave, although your star system is clear I do read sometimes reviews on your site from which I think based on the text of the review it should get less stars. Like why give it 4 starts when you see so many niggles, edit mistakes etc.
ReplyDelete