This pic has got nothing to do with the post, it just made me laugh so I thought I'd share.
Now, given that everyone - even Kris - gave this book a rating of 4+ stars, I was expecting to love it. Instead, I found myself underwhelmed and, to be honest, finishing it was a bit of a slog. I'm not going into the specific reasons why here, because I'm going to review it tomorrow, but I did wonder, in part, whether my expectations were too high based on what I'd seen from other people. Did the fact that I was expecting to love the book actually count against it when it came to my reaction? This is entirely possible, because as I examine why I had problems with the book, I realise that a lot of it is to do with personal feelings and not much to do with there being technically much wrong with the book.
Let's take the opposite side of things. I have a book in my TBR pile which has been slammed on Good Reads and some other review sites - The Shunned by Jay Hughes. The author sent it to me to review and I'm embarrassed to say that I've been putting it off because of all the bad reviews it's been getting - again I've only seen the star ratings and not read the actual reviews. I'm going to have to knuckle down and read it ready to review next week because it's not fair to the author to keep him waiting when I said I would review his book, but my expectations of the book are not high, to say the least. Part of me is wondering whether my low expectations are going to cloud my reading of the book. Will it get a higher grade because I'm not expecting it to be a good read? I can't answer that until I start reading, but it's a slight worry in the back of my mind.
Before I joined Good Reads I was pretty good at ignoring what everyone else thought of a book until after I'd read it myself. This meant that I often approached a book with no expectations whatsoever. I was a clean slate, as it were. Now that I look on GRs on a regular basis, I find I am getting an overall view of the opinions of others before I read a book. It's almost impossible to avoid unless I stop visiting GRs at all, which I'm not going to do. In the end I just have to accept that I can't cocoon myself off from everything and as long as I'm aware of the influence that other reader's views may have on my opinion of a book then my reviews should still be able to write an honest review which isn't clouded by what other's may have thought of it.
How about you? Do you find yourself influenced by what others have thought of a book and does the fact that a book has been raved about/slammed affect your own interpretation of a book?
Oh I'm definitely influenced and I've had the same experience, was expecting something to blow my socks off and it was meh. I'm reading More as I type (well, not literally) and so far I am enjoying it. And yes, I read the reviews before I read a book, but then I read the endings first sometimes so that kind of thing doesn't bother me.
ReplyDeleteI don't check Good Reads ratings unless I am unsure about buying a book and then I check the ratings from people I know to see if I might like it. It's usually after I've read something and I go to put in my rating that I find out what others there thought about it.
I think our minds can build anything up and it's always very vague. It will be amazing, we're not sure what that means but we'll know it when we see it. Not just books, but movies, food, etc. So it has happened to me more than once.
There are "famous" m/m books out there that seem universally loved and I am often extremely meh on them or it's even a DNF. It makes me wonder if there is something wrong with me that I didn't love it as much as a majority of the readers. But such is life, taste is as individual as each person involved.
It kind of sucks though when you get psyched up for something and then it doesn't live up to what you perceive is it's reputation.
Hmm. Maybe GoodReads needs a "show ratings/don't show ratings" option, to avoid things like that. I know on LibraryThing, you can select different views - some of them have ratings and some don't.
ReplyDeleteI avoid reviews unless I've read the book, but I will notice the rating in blog reviews, and I do read the "take-home message" paragraph. Usually, this just confirms for me that I won't be reading a particular book; however, sometimes it will inspire me to try a book I wouldn't otherwise have read (such as Downtime by Tamara Allen, which was excellent).
Hi Tam
ReplyDeleteI know what you mean about thinking something must be wrong with you if you don't like a book everyone else raves about. I have a few 'famous' m/m books which have been DNFs for me.
As you say though, you can't help what you feel. At the moment my GRs rating for More sticks out like a sore thumb amongst all the high ratings which makes me doubt my own response to the book - how could I not have loved it as much as all these other people?
I'm like Billy no-mates standing out from the popular girls again *sigh*.
Hi Chris
ReplyDeleteI don't think GRs does have that option to switch off the star ratings as it were.
I'm so glad you liked Downtime especially as it's not the sort of book you normally would have gone for *beams*.
Yes, I've been scarred for life by that darn m/m rutt challenge. ;)
ReplyDeleteChris: Ah, you loved it ;).
ReplyDeleteI had to think on this for a while before I decided that the ratings don't really color my expectations of a book. There are several reasons. I am getting better at interpreting blurbs so I'm not suckered into buying books I probably won't like (not fail safe of course). I am learning which reviewers have similar tastes to mine. I accept that people have different ideas of what's good. I know my mood affects my reaction to and choice of reading.
ReplyDeleteMy expectations are more affected by what else I've read by an author. I've learned that there are some writers who will probably never write my cup of tea, and some write stuff that is like cotton candy.
I also recently realized that I am affected by an author's on-line personality. I recently read a book that had been sitting in my tbr list forever, I had to push myself to finally read it and I hated it. I don't think it was really that bad, I just had a bad taste in my mouth from something I'd experienced with this author and I couldn't let go of that.
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ReplyDeleteHi Wren
ReplyDeleteIt's interesting that you have been affected by an author's on-line presence. I find that as well - like I am predisposed to have a bad vibe towards their book if I've found them to be objectionable on-line. In many cases I don't read books by these authors anyway as I tend to stay well clear.
You are right though in saying that there are some authors whose work doesn't gel with me and, again, I've learned just to avoid them.
I have very quirky tastes as a reader, so I don't check out too many reviews. Like Tam, I've all too frequently had that "meh" or "blech" response to super-popular books.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure what to make of GoodReads. I guess it's like any site where people with a common interest congregate: A bit of a herd mentality prevails. As a reader, I can't say I've discovered anything new or exciting there. And, as an author, it makes me uncomfortable to "rate" writers in my genre unless I genuinely loved their work. Therefore, I don't visit too often.
As usual, it's the blurb and, especially, the excerpt that either draws me in or puts me off. I can tolerate most any subject, but I can't tolerate writing that either leaves me cold because it's so bland or fires me up because it's so inept.
Yes! to your observations re. online presence. There are a few people whose books I wouldn't read if they were recommended, and given to me, by Jesus Christ himself. (Yikes, imagine trying gracefully to decline that offer! *g*)
ReplyDeleteYou may have seen me talking about how one of the best pieces of advice I ever got from more experienced authors was to remember that 20% of the readers will hate the book, no matter what. It's meant to be a reminder that tastes vary and you *will* get bad reviews, and that you need to learn to live with that.
ReplyDeleteI think it might be a useful thing to remember from a reader perspective as well. There *will* be books that everyone but you seems to love. We do vary in what we like/dislike, and sometimes we're going to be in the 20%. There was one Loose Id book I was asked to blurb in the early days, and I sent it back with a comment along the lines of, "I can't blurb this, it's not my taste and I couldn't get past the third chapter." Going by the ratings on Fictionwise (which are purely by people who've shelled out hard cash for a copy), I'm very much in the minority. And I could see that it was competently written, just... not my thing, and deeply boring as far as I was concerned.
Again with the 'even Kris'. *sigh*
ReplyDeleteTo answer your question: no, not really. As you and others have frequently observed, my ratings tend to be lower than everyone else's so at the back of my mind there's always the thought that I'm likely to have a different reaction to other people's. Whether more positive or negative is yet to be decided until I've actually read the book.
It hasn't been universally slammed. It got 5-star review ratings from Elisa Rolle and Literary Nymphs. Also has some good reader ratings at All Romance Ebooks. It's just one of those types of books that isn't to everyone's taste.
ReplyDelete*snicker* Guess Google alerts are working well today.
ReplyDeleteI'm easily disappointed by overhyped books. Especially when they're promoted by other authors or friends of the author. Then I suspect it's more of a "So and so's a great person!" endorsement than a "This is a great book!" endorsement.
Sorry you didn't love More. I read it for work, and it's one of the very few books I've read that actually didn't feel like work. In fact, I ended up finishing it two days before deadline because I was so compelled to keep reading it.
But you know what? Lots of books don't work for me, so I totally get it. :)
I use Goodreads for recommendations, so I'm slightly influenced by a review/rating. Although I only seriously consider the ratings of people I know have similar likes that I do. I pretty much know who to exclude and who to be "influenced" by (if this makes sense :))
ReplyDeleteword verification: reamer - only when I'm angry ;)
Yes..and no. I usually am heavily influenced by fellow bloggers and twitters for my book buying. I trust their judgement and more often than not, I'll like the book. Everyone has different emotional ties to the book -I read More and thought, yeah pretty good. Perhaps if I stumbled upon it myself I may have had a different reaction, less expectations etc.
ReplyDeleteI tend to look at Goodreads after I've read a book. For instance I've recently read Rosemary and Rue which I loved and when I looked on GR it had a rating of around 3.5, which really surprised me. I then looked more closely and saw that it seemed it was being rated either very high or very low depending on whether people liked the heroine.
ReplyDeleteThe book I'm reading at the moment (Tempest Rising) I feel that I should really love, it has all the ingredients but for some reason it just isn't working for me.
I try very hard not to be influenced by reviews (that doesn't mean I always manage it :) ). I'll read blurbs, excerpts, go to the author's site. The last book I think I was influenced by reviews to buy was Mark of the Demon, everyone was raving about what a great UF book it was. And when I read it I really didn't like the heroine.
Hmmm. Maybe I should post anonymously on here :). It happens to me all the time, reading a well-hyped book then personally finding it meh. Very few stand out as WOW for me, and it does make me wonder what sort of harsh cow I really am, or whether I'm existing happily but unsuspectingly in another dimension to other readers.
ReplyDeleteI keep away from GR to be honest, because some people - no one here! - seem to grow a power complex there, and it intimidates me. But of course, I read a lot of reviews because I like to see what's out there in the market, and what other readers thought. I don't always buy on the basis of it, though.
I'd find it difficult to review books because of what I call the 'stroppy clare' factor. If people rave about something - unless it's the few people I know have a similar taste and quality control to me - I dig my heels in and (pouting) prepare to find fault. And like you said about the book you had *low* expectations of, I'd perversely look for what may appeal to me. Sometimes that works *lol*, but often I'm happy to agree with the previous reviewers! But I suppose at least I've made up my own mind.
On another interesting sort-of-related theme, I just read an ebook that I really liked, but even as I read, I was smiling and 'ticking off' the list of provocative themes I knew would score low with other readers and reviewers. Not because the book was badly written, not because I was any 'better' than the other readers in any way, but because of personal tastes.
(I did email the author).
I guess a good reviewer - and reader - can absorb other people's opinions but still make their own. I'd think the extra pressure on a reviewer comes from striking out from the crowd, if that's what the result is - yet that's what I treasure about a good review(er). Too many sites just seem to repeat what others have said without adding any value of their own - and definitely nothing original or with any conflict, however constructive that may be.
A rambly comment from me, I'm still a bit jetlagged! :)
Sadly, RL experiences make me more and more convinced that something liked and loved by the moltitude is probably very bad for your well being and your health - and with books it's sometimes the same. That said, I know that I can be influenced by reviews and ratings, at least in part, but usually only when a book didn't elicit very strong emotions from me. Luckily (or not, it depends) I can be very stubborn and if a book I didn't like gets raving recommendations and top-rate reviews I usually scratch my head in disbelief and think "whatever". I get a little irritated if someone slams a a story I love, but unless I feel at ease with the people who follow the blog and the reviewer(s), I keep mum. Fangirls scare me to death.
ReplyDeleteI see it as a sign that I'm not a robot - yet.
Oh, absolutely. I've just finished AM Riley's Immortality is the Suck, and tbh I'm not sure what I think of the heroes. The consensus of the reviews I read before I started it seemed to be that Adam's a bastard and Peter's a doormat, but I didn't quite see it like that.
ReplyDeleteBut then I thought, was I looking for evidence to show them in a better light precisely because I'd been told not to expect much?
Hi KZ
ReplyDeleteCertainly I find that there's a lot of common ground on GRs. Many of the people who frequent that site have similar feelings about books. I think it's also quite hard to stand out from the crowd. I felt very alone as I clicked the 3 star button for More, knowing that everyone else had rated it higher.
Hi Jules
ReplyDelete20% is quite a high number! I think it's a good thing to have several different viewpoints on a book. If I'm wavering over whether to buy a book or not then I will go and read what other people thought of it first. The more interesting books are often those that divide opinions and I'll buy them to see whereabouts my opinion fits amongst those of other people.
Hi Kris
ReplyDeleteYou're my benchmark, Mate. If you rate a book highly then I know I'm in for a good read. Usually, anyway :).
Hi Anonymous
ReplyDeleteYou are right. I was cruel in my sweeping generalisation by saying that the book had been universally slammed, although I haven't read the reviews that you have mentioned. I've amended my post to be slightly more specific and, I hope, accurate.
Hi JenB
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry too that I didn't like the book as much as I thought I would. It has all the things I normally like in an m/m/m ménage but just didn't work for me this time.
I think readers do need to be careful of hype, but then again most m/m books are marketed through reviews and word of mouth so a certain amount of hype is needed if an author is going to sell books.
Hi Mariana
ReplyDeleteYou've mad a good point there that many readers, me included, know whose opinion to trust and will naturally pay more attention to recommendations from those readers.
Hi Smokin
ReplyDeleteIt's lovely when you know you have people whose judgement you can trust when reading reviews or looking for book recs. I'm the same as you in that I have a number of people whose taste in books gel with mine and I'll look to them if I need advice about a book.
Hi Lesley
ReplyDeleteI tend to ignore the general overall rating on GRs and look at the specifics of what the individual star ratings are saying. That then tells me how mixed the responses really are, plus some ratings can be skewed by just 1 or 2 people giving very high or very low ratings when overall the response has either been good or average.
Hi Clare
ReplyDeleteit does make me wonder what sort of harsh cow I really am
I think the term is 'discerning' :)
The 'stroppy Clare' comment made me laugh. I have to admit that I'm not particularly stubborn so I don't really dig my heels in about what other people think. I do sometimes read reviews of books and wonder whether we read the same book :).
Personal taste does play a large part in how readers react to a book. The 'provocative' themes that you liked in the book you mentioned will appeal to some readers - like you - but I can see how a book like that may not have overall appeal.
Hi Sara
ReplyDeleteFangirls scare me to death
Me too!
I think all readers are a bit put out when someone says bad things about a much loved book, just as we all scratch our heads when someone raves on about a book which we didn't like.
Hi JL
ReplyDeleteI loved Adam in IITS but, yes he was a bastard IMO :). I didn't see Peter as so much of a doormat - more that he loved Adam a great deal and was willing to put up with a lot just to be with him. I think the character of Peter comes into his own a bit more in the sequel.
It is hard to be not influenced by reviews. Therefore I am glad that my TBR pile is small and I will buy a book and read it immediately. So I will have it finished before the mass has.
ReplyDeletePart from reviewers *evil eye* who get an ARC and get to read it first.
At GR I only look at the ratings from people that are on my friends list. I more or less know what they like. And some are harsh reviewers. So even if they gave it a 2/3, I will like it better because editing mistakes don't bother me as much.
Some people just like everything and they are no benchmark either.
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ReplyDeleteI'm late to the party as usual. ;)
ReplyDeleteI don't rate other authors in my genre on GR, just because... well. There's a lot of reasons why. And yeah, I tend to be more influenced by an author's online presence than anything. If they're routinely pissing me off or making me cringe, I probably won't read their books because I'm afraid any reaction I have to their writing will be colored by (or interpreted as) a reaction to THEM.
I don't usually go much by GR ratings, because I feel like most people on GR rate things according to personal feelings rather than objective judgment, if that makes sense. Like, it may be a well-written book with a good story but if it doesn't have enough graphic sex or something, frex, they'll give it a low rating. If I'm wavering on a book, I will check out reviews from sites that I know are going to tell me enough to make an informed decision -- yours, Wave's, a few others.
For the most part, I'm pretty comfortable having my own opinions about things. I know what my triggers are and what my fool-proof kinks are, and I don't usually expect other people to share those tastes. LOL So I guess I always expect to be somewhat different from the masses. S'why I'm always surprised when I like something that is massively popular.
Hi Ingrid
ReplyDeleteSome people just like everything and they are no benchmark either.
I've noticed this too and I tend just to ignore those reviewers on GRs. I expect authors love reviewers like this :).
I've noticed that you've often read books before me. My TBR pile is so huge with so many books I've promised to read and review, it's often weeks before I can get to the new releases, unless I bump them up the pile - and then I feel guilty for doing that.
Hi Jules
ReplyDeleteAs long as you've brought wine, I don't care how late you turn up :).
most people on GR rate things according to personal feelings rather than objective judgment, if that makes sense. Like, it may be a well-written book with a good story but if it doesn't have enough graphic sex or something, frex, they'll give it a low rating.
That's an interesting idea. Do readers really mark a book down if it's not erotic enough? Sometimes it's a bit dispiriting to think that all an author needs to do is write a whole load of sex, bung in a bit of plot and they're guaranteed a 4 star review on GRs.
*sigh*
Maybe I'm just a cynic.
I try to buy not more books than that I can read. Also I try to keep within a certain budget.
ReplyDeleteI will not say that I manage every month but it works most times.
If you learn that a reviewer is someone who seems to like everything then their ratings don't mean quite so much to an author. While it is nice to see those 4 & 5 star reviews on GR (or anywhere, for that matter), and that can be a little ego-soothing, it just doesn't carry as much weight as it does when a reviewer has certain standards they like to see met, or when they are someone who gives reasoning for their opinions.
ReplyDeleteI can't imagine marking a book down if it's not erotic enough. Unless all you ever look for is the smexxin'. We have all learned from you and other good reviewers that it isn't the sex, it's the story. And the sex had better further that story!
Still, maybe I'll go write some pure pr0n now. :)
Hi Ingrid
ReplyDeleteI used to be just like you, until I started this blog and now things have spiralled out of control :).
Hi Wren
ReplyDeleteI understand your feelings. I remember once an author (I think it was KZ) blogged about being chuffed that someone had left a positive comment on an extract that she had left on a yahoo group - only to discover that the same person had left a similar comment on all the extracts that day. Somehow the comment now didn't have the same impact.
I know that authors can be a little frustrated with sites like Amazon and GRs where people just leave ratings and then never say why they thought a book merited 2 or 3 stars.
Oh that KZ, always chuffed about something!
ReplyDeleteI shouldn't whine about readers just posting stars on GR - I do it all the time, mostly because I just don't have the time to comment on each book I read! But I think my star quantities are all over the place, so if you look at them you know I have certain tastes, at least!
Wren: Hey, I'm not getting in the middle of your feud with KZ ;)
ReplyDeleteI'm sure you have great taste. You must do if you read my blog :).
Damn. Another neutral territory!
ReplyDeleteYour blog is very tasty, Jen!
I am not terribly influenced by other reviews or ratings like Goodreads, Amazon or B&N.
ReplyDeleteI try to be honest when I rate. I also never rate a book immediately (I like to chew on them for a bit). I have loved books that have been slammed and hated books that have been raved about.
Wren: Thanks, sweetie. I aim to please :).
ReplyDeleteHi Dhympna
ReplyDeleteIt's probably a good idea to 'chew' on a book before rating. Sometimes I think the ratings on GRs are often people's gut reactions to books. I've even been known to change a book rating at GRs after a week or so when I've had more time to reflect on it.